Zdravo Radka,
hvala na opširnom odgovoru, mislim da radite odličan posao sa svojom veb lokacijom. U svojoj poslednjoj tiradi više sam govorio o opštim potezima koje je kazino napravio, uključujući slučaj Martina44.
Na kraju dana za mene se sve svodi na sledeće:
- neopravdano visoku notu i indeks sigurnosti koji imaju
- konfiskaciju sredstava za bilo koju aktivnost koju smatraju korisnim za igrača
- ne komuniciraju o tačnom prekršaju koji smatraju kršenjem pravila
Mislim da bi ova pravila u pogledu uslova trebalo odmah isključiti mogućnost visokog indeksa:
11.5.3.4 Vaše iskorišćavanje greške kako je definisano u paragrafu 18.1 u nastavku, u svakom slučaju bilo u Vašu korist i/ili na štetu nas ili drugih .
11.5.3.5 Korišćenje bilo kog alata, dodatka, softvera koji dozvoljava zloupotrebu ili izostavljanje identiteta, geografskog položaja, garancija posebnih i regionalnih promocija, kao što je korišćenje vpn-a, proksija, dns-a ili bilo koje tehnike ili protokola koji mogu da prevare , zaobići ili modifikovati bilo koje ograničenje ili geografsku selekciju smatra se lažnim i strogo je zabranjeno. Računi i sredstva će biti suspendovani bez prethodnog obaveštenja.
11.5.3.6 Tehnike klađenja kao što je martingejl treba izbegavati i tražiti dozvolu za korišćenje (kazino)
I to je kombinovano sa ovim pravilom:
NAJNOVIJA VERZIJA SA NjIHOVOG SAJTA:
12.7 Kada zatvorimo Vaš nalog i ukinemo Uslove korišćenja u skladu sa stavom 11 (Dogovor, varanje, prevara i kriminalne aktivnosti) ili paragrafom 20 (Kršenje Uslova korišćenja), stanje na Vašem nalogu neće biti refundirano i smatraće se da budete oduzeti u meri u kojoj postoji bilo kakva potraživanja koju možemo imati protiv Vas na dan takvog zatvaranja (bilo u okviru Vašeg naloga, duplog naloga ili na neki drugi način)
Pošto su mi poslali sličan odgovor poštom, mogu da vam citiram prethodni isti paragraf 12.7 pre promene:
12.7 Kada mi zatvorimo nalog i ukinemo Uslove korišćenja u skladu sa stavom 11 (Dogovor, prevara, prevara i kriminalne aktivnosti) ili paragrafom 20 (Kršenje Uslova korišćenja), raspoloživo stanje na vašem nalogu će neće biti vraćeni i smatraće se da ste ih izgubili kao oblik kompenzacije koju možemo imati protiv vas u trenutku zatvaranja naloga (takođe primenljivo na duplikate naloga).
Ovde možete videti malu promenu u tekstu, najnoviji obrazac na njihovom sajtu i prethodnu verziju.
Prethodna verzija je pominjala oblik kompenzacije protiv igrača i ja sam pokrenuo ovo pitanje i poslao ga na brojne adrese, uključujući i odbor za igre Curacao.
Problem sa ovom formulacijom 'nadoknade' je očigledno bila pravna strana i slučajnost u odnosu prekršaja i kazne, ako ste imali 5€ na svom računu, vaša naknada kazinu za navodni prekršaj bila je 5€, ako ste imali 5000€, kazna za isti navodni prekršaj iznosila je 5000€.
Digao sam buku oko toga, a sada se to odjednom promenilo!
Ako ovo nije prikrivanje njihovih tragova i zatvaranje ove pravne petlje, ne znam šta jeste.
Naravno, kao što sam rekao 100 puta ranije, igrao sam i u kazino igrama iu sportskom klađenju samo ono što je bilo ponuđeno iz kazina pod limitima postavljenim iz kazina, i igrao sam u istom stilu sve vreme bez ikakvih upozorenja ili ograničenja.
Ako imate grešku u kazinu, proglašavate dobitnu nevažeću, ako imate grešku u kvotama, proglašavate otkazivanje događaja i sve opklade poništene.
Ono što ne možete da uradite je da legalizujete krađu sredstava kroz uslove.
A ako neko ima sreće i diže dovoljno buke kao što je to uradila Maritina44, platite mu za ćutanje i nastavite sa svojim aktivnostima.
Hello Radka,
thanks for the extensive answer, I think you guys are doing a great job with your site. In my last tirade I was talking more about general moves that casino made, including Martina44 case.
At the end of the day for me it comes down to the following:
- unjustified high note and safety index that they have
- confiscating the funds for any activity they deem as advantageous for a player
- not communicating about exact offense that they regard as a breach of rules
I think that having these rules in terms and conditions sholud immediately exclude the possibility of high index note:
11.5.3.4 The exploitation by You, of an Error as defined in paragraph 18.1 below, in any case either to Your advantage and/or to the disadvantage of us or others.
11.5.3.5 Use of any tool, plug-in, software that allows the abuse or omission of identity, geographic position, guarantee of special and regional promotions, such as the use of vpn, proxys, dns or any technique or protocol that can deceive, bypass or modify any restriction or geographical selection is considered fraudulent and strictly prohibited. Accounts and funds will be suspended without prior notice.
11.5.3.6 Betting techniques such as martingale should be avoided and requested permission to be used (casino)
And that is combined with this rule:
LATEST VERSION FROM THEIR SITE:
12.7 Where we close Your Account and terminate the Terms of Use pursuant to paragraph 11 (Collusion, Cheating, Fraud and Criminal Activity) or paragraph 20 (Breach of the Terms of Use), the balance of Your Account will be non-refundable and deemed to be forfeited by You to the extent of any claim that we may have against You as at the date of such closure (whether under Your Account, a Duplicate Account or otherwise)
As they have sent a similar answer to me per mail, I can quote you the previous same paragraph 12.7 before the change:
12.7 When an account is closed by us and the Terms of Use are terminated in accordance with paragraph 11 (Collusion, swindling, fraud, and criminal activity) or paragraph 20 (Breach of the Terms of Use), the available balance in your account will not be returned and will be deemed forfeited by you as a form of compensation that we may have against you at the time of the account closure (also applicable to duplicate accounts).
You can see a slight change in the text here, the latest form on their site, and the previous version.
The previous version was mentioning the form of compensation against the player and I raised this issue and sent it to numerous addresses, including curacao gaming's board.
The problem with this 'compensation' formulation was obviously the legal side and the randomness in offense vs. penalty ratio, if you had 5€ on your account your compensation to the casino for alleged offense was 5€, if you had 5000€, the penalty for the same alleged offense was 5000€.
I made the noise about it, and now it is suddenly changed!
If this is not covering of their tracks and closing up this legal loop, I don't know what is.
Of course, as I stated 100 times before, I played in both Casino games and sport betting only what was offered from the Casino under the limits set from the Casino, and I played in same style for the whole time without any warning or limitations.
If you have a glitch in casino you declare a winning void, if you have a glitch in odds you declare an event cancelation and all bets voided.
What you can't do, is legalize stealing of funds through terms and conditions.
And if someone has some luck and raises enough noise as Maritina44 did, you pay them of for their silence and move on with your activities.
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