Casino owner: Dama N.V.

I'm currently using Oshi Casino, they're offering great, just their payout is extremely slow (minimum 1 day for crypto payout).

So been looking at other casino, but most of them are owned by Dama N.V.

If they're owned by the same owner, is it fair to say, its the same online casino, with same back end & support staff operating them, just different user interface.

Assuming it's the same casino, will you still need to do their extreme documentation verification all over again?

Hey there,

Normally, the initial KYC procedure is held just once, if done properly. 🙂

You may, however, face additional verification focused on your gaming history and recent activity checks.

So, even though, your account has passed Know Your Customer verification in the past, the casino may feel further checks are needed to proceed with another withdrawal.

Additionally, passing the KYC in one casino within the same group will most likely mean you still need to undergo it in the other casino under the same owner. Depends on the structure.

Yet, "shared" verification is uncommon, at least in my opinion.

By the way, have you ever heard about Casino Guru's free course called "iGaming Player Verification and AML"? Might be useful at some point

"Learn about the player verification process and the importance of anti-money laundering (AML). Read about the most common online gambling frauds, explore Sumsub's KYC and high conversion verification flows, and go through a special crash course covering the most frequent failures of operators, along with lessons to be learned and advice to be implemented."

https://casino.guru/academy/course/igaming-player-verification 👈

Not perfectly sure whether I answered your question in full, so please let me know what you think.

Mountberg (Viggoslots, Vasy, etc) casinos used to do group verification. Whether they still do or not I can't confirm.

Rootz Limited (Wildz, Wheelz, etc) also used to have group verification. Been a while since I've played there, however. Might want to double-check if they still do.

If they're owned by the same owner, is it fair to say, its the same online casino, with same back end & support staff operating them, just different user interface.

While they may want you to believe otherwise, I'm pretty sure this is a safe assumption to make, as they're all essentially operated by Softswiss.

Softswiss handles the design, licensing, game supply, customer support, etc. I believe the only thing a "third party" needs to supply are start-up funds and marketing. Don't quote me on that, though.

Thank you for the information.

Was there any specific reason you have stopped playing there, if you don't mind me asking?

Was there any specific reason you have stopped playing there, if you don't mind me asking?

RTP drop. They switched over to the ~94% versions of most games.

Speaking of which, I'd still love to see Casino Guru be the first one to show REAL RTP stats on the casino review pages. It could be incorporated into the provider list where beside each provider listed, it would show which version of their games the casino is running.

As far as I know, there are NO review sites that do this. I have to believe that this is an unwritten agreement that affiliates enter when they get into the money-making side of things, as nobody wants to be seen promoting a casino that's running low-RTP games.

I get your point for sure.

You can see the RTP of each game written in the information about the game on our site.

Is that what you meant?

No, as each casino is free to select which version of the games they wish to use.

Generally, they don't seem to fluctuate much. For example, if they're running the 94% version of Sugar Rush, then all games from Pragmatic will be the 94% versions*. Same goes for Relax, PnG, etc.

When I start playing at a new casino, I always check games from multiple providers to see which version they're running. In most cases, I won't play anything under 96% as it's just a massive waste of time; especially with the high volatility games they're making today.

There really needs to be more focus on regulating the providers.

While things like eCogra are a good step in the right direction, more needs to be done, as providers are coming up with increasingly clever ways to keep everyone happy. If a provider shows an RTP of 96%, most people would think that it's a good number. What they don't tell you, however, is that the 96% mark was hit after a 100,000x multiplier that landed once in 10,000,000,000 spins.

Until they change how RTP is verifed, like instituting a set number of spins, etc.. games will continue to run at about 50% short-term RTP.

That being said, I'll still play a 96% game over a 94% game every single time.

*) Some games from Pragmatic (such as Sweet Bonanza, The Dog House, Chilli Heat, etc) have 95% versions as their downgraded versions. Likely because Pragmatic doesn't want some of their most popular titles** to take a hit once people realize that they're not playing the default version of the game.

**) Big Bass Bonanza has a 94.07% version out there. That a HUGE drop from the 96.71% default setting.

Also, I don't want it to come across as though I'm picking on Pragmatic. All things considered, they're definitely one of the better providers out there, as they list RTP in the help file of every game and I can't recall seeing anything less than the 94% versions out there.

By comparison, PnG offers versions multiple versions ranging from 87% to 96%. What's worse, is that they allow operators to hide the game RTP in jurisdictions where that kind of thing is allowed (looking at you, Curacao).

I really like your expertise in this field.

If everyone had the view like you do, it would be almost a perfect world. Right?🙂

It is really important to be informed, for sure, just that some players won't go that deep and just enjoy their hobby, I could say.

Thank you, though, for all the information provided, and keep up with everything you do. This way you can surely help many of us.👌

just that some players won't go that deep and just enjoy their hobby

Which is why I think it'd be fantastic if someone - ANYONE - would display the relevant RTP info on a casino review.

I've yet to see any review site offer this. Most just have generic RTP ranges for the casino as a whole, which I'm sure are completely fabricated, as I can't imagine any operator just offering up that kind of information unless required by authorities.

Here's hoping the Guru will become a trendsetter. Start displaying actual RTP information on the reviews. It would save a lot of time and spammy emails, as the only way to get that information right now, is to register for every casino you want to see this information for.

If that was possible, we would make that happen 🙂

For example, in the free game section, we used to show the announced volatility for each game. Since the source is no longer available, none of it remains.

The direct line is clear, even though I am aware that the volatility is not the RTP. Furthermore, in my opinion, it is impossible to determine the precise RTP (not disclosed) for any game without continuously accessing its entire gameplay history and using some expensive software that we do not have. This is the end of the concept.

In addition, it is not possible to set up an actual RTP for a casino rather than just each game for each player from the list of allowed countries because our website shows specific features based on the country our visitor comes from.

Another issue is that in order to determine RTP, the time condition needs to be specified, which makes it subject to change. Even attempting to identify and track RTP for a single game would obviously require ongoing monitoring, assuming our goal is to update casino reviews once every few months. This also applies to the list of games that are offered and the game providers that are available for each casino in its review. The list is typically updated with every major casino update. As long as it is not even possible to have each casino review up to the current date, trying to mingle with the RTP calculations would be a disaster, I reckon.

I have other considerations as well, but if it is okay with you, I will put these off for later.

Though I'm impressed, you seem to hold such high "hopes" in our efforts!

When I say "display the actual RTP information", I mean only the provider-disclosed RTP.

It really wouldn't be that hard to acquire this information, as you could allow users to send it over in exchange for some Guru swag or something.

Whatever the RTP of any given game is, 99% of the time, all other games from that provider will also be the same version. That's to say, if a casino is offering Sugar Rush in it's 96.5% (default) version, then all games from Pragmatic will be the default version.

Very rarely do I come across a casino that has multiple RTP values for a given supplier. This usually happens more with Games Global and older Microgaming games, but there are always exceptions to the rule.

So, while my idea may be a little flawed, it's still better than not having the information.

Besides, in this world, it's damn near impossible to have all your information be correct, 100% of the time.

Perhaps we still don't see eye to eye.

I'm not familiar with Canadian specifics, but as you can even see in the free games library, games from the same game provider have different RTPs. Not to mention some providers allow casinos to pick from open options. Did you know you can see the "basic" value in the free game saction? This is the number that the game provider assigns to each game. For example, NetEnt:

The main technical difficulty, however, still remains.

We are unable to post this theoretical value as long as the casino does not provide us with a list of the games that are available, and we are not able to track such list down and keep it up-to-date.

Even if our goal is to give a concrete casino a single general RTP value that applies to all games offered by a particular game provider, it will not be based on casino games or replicate gaming history. It would be nothing more than a number that would indicate the RTP value for the specific game provider.

I personally do not believe we have access to such information. 🙁

All three of those games are 96% RTP or higher. To those of us who play slots, we generally regard this as the "default" RTP. It's the same value that you'll see in demo modes and on the provider websites.

Not to mention some providers allow casinos to pick from open options

This is the problem, and this is why I'd like to see RTP information on review pages.

Let's say default RTP is anything 96% or higher.

The downgraded version will usually be somewhere in the 94% range, some even in the 95s. Anything lower than this version is completely unacceptable and should be considered robbery.

Almost every provider offers downgraded versions these days. A casino will usually run a specific version for all games from a given provider. Very rarely do they mix and match. For example, if Money Train is 94%, then all games from Relax will be their 94% versions.

The information is easy to find and couple be implemented without much hassle.

That said, advertising that a casino offers the downgraded versions of games, is likely to hurt the bottom line and is the main reason review sites shy away from showing this information.

Alright, let me concentrate on one final point 🙂. Which, hopefully, makes it clear why I insisted on using proven RTP rather than fun mode RTP offered by game providers' websites.

You say that getting all of this information is simple. My information indicates that it is not 🤷‍♀️.

For obvious and reasonable reasons, the game providers will not tell us, and we do not know which casino accepted which option and for which countries. All affiliate sites would use this information on top of the bonus deals if it were as simple as you say, I reckon.

Any practical solution would be greatly valued!