Dragi /a Hav_inc , kako bih pravilno upravljao/la tvojim očekivanjima o ishodu ovog spora, želeo/la bih da ti dam dodatne informacije u vezi sa tvojom prethodnom objavom i mislima:
1. Rumunski zakon o kockanju – OUG 77/2009 (izmenjen Zakonom br. 124/2015)
Ovaj zakon zahteva da svi operateri kockanja koji nude usluge rumunskim stanovnicima budu licencirani od strane Rumunske nacionalne kancelarije za kockanje (ONJN). Član 10 eksplicitno zabranjuje kockanje na daljinu bez ovlašćenja ONJN. YBets nema takvu licencu, a ipak je dozvolio pristup, depozite i igranje sa mog rumunskog naloga. Zbog toga je njihovo poslovanje u Rumuniji ne samo neovlašćeno, već i nezakonito.
Nažalost, ne živimo u savršenom svetu i rumunski zakon se ovde ne primenjuje. Sve zbog klauzule 4.5.b Uslova i odredbi kazina koju ste prihvatili prilikom registracije naloga. Navedena odredba glasi:
- 4.5. Ybets neće prihvatiti registracije od pojedinaca koji:
b) boravite u jurisdikcijama gde je kockanje ilegalno ili nije dozvoljeno. Ybets nije u mogućnosti da proveri legalnost usluge u svakoj jurisdikciji i odgovornost je korisnika da osigura da je njegovo korišćenje usluge zakonito;
Zbog toga se odgovornost prebacuje na igrača, i uobičajena je praksa da se kazina zaštite od tužbi, jer se čak i najbolja blokada IP adrese u zemlji može lako izbeći pomoću VPN-a i drugih sličnih servisa. Pošto izgleda da ste dobro upoznati sa rumunskim zakonima o kockanju, kreiranjem naloga svesno ste prekršili odredbu 4.5.b i stoga ne možete ovo pretvoriti u sudski postupak. Uporedio bih ovu situaciju sa kupovinom lekova onlajn iz sumnjivih e-prodavnica, umesto da ih kupujete od lokalnog farmaceuta ili da vam ih lekar prepiše. Možete to učiniti - ali ako vam je loše, vi ste odgovorna osoba, a ne e-prodavnica ili lekar. Igrajući na Ybets-u, znajući da nemaju licencu u Rumuniji, svesno ste se bavili kockanjem u kazinu bez lokalne licence i stoga vam nijedan lokalni zakon ne može pomoći da sprovedete bilo koji zakon o kockanju u slučaju problema. Kažem svesno, jer ste pristajanjem na Uslove i odredbe pristali na kreiranje naloga, da ste se uverili da znate da li je legalno da igrate u ovom konkretnom kazinu.
2. Direktiva EU 2005/29/EZ o nepoštenim trgovinskim praksama
Članovi 6 i 7 ove direktive zabranjuju obmanjujuće komercijalne prakse, uključujući neotkrivanje ključnih informacija ili predstavljanje usluge kao legalno dostupne kada to nije tako. Izostavljanjem Rumunije iz njihovih ograničenih jurisdikcija i navođenjem na sajtu Casino Guru kao „dostupne u Rumuniji" sa visokim indeksom bezbednosti, YBets i vaša platforma su me obmanuli da poverujem da igram legalno i bezbedno. Ovo je kršenje standarda EU o zaštiti potrošača.
U vreme pisanja ove poruke, termin 15.5 ne prikazuje Rumuniju kao zemlju sa ograničenjima, i kada je moja koleginica razgovarala u ćaskanju uživo, rečeno joj je da su rumunski igrači dozvoljeni. Naša recenzija to odražava. Takođe, kao što ste i sami ranije naveli, mogli ste da kreirate nalog, uplatite depozit, igrate, pa čak i podignete novac, iako ste Rumun. To me navodi na uverenje da su rumunski igrači prihvaćeni, kao što je navedeno u našoj recenziji.
Što se tiče bezbednosnog indeksa Kazino Gurua, kazino ima ocenu 7,4, što je i dalje na nivou „DOBRO", ali ne i visok indeks bezbednosti. Ovaj kazino se čak ni aktivno ne promoviše i nema bezbednosnu značku Kazino Gurua. Takođe, naša recenzija jasno navodi da kazino ima Anžuansku licencu, koja, kao što znate, ne pokriva Rumuniju. Ako imate bilo kakve sumnje u vezi sa legalnošću kazina u vašoj zemlji prebivališta, možete pitati na našem forumu, postaviti pitanje u odeljku za komentare u recenziji kazina (naše kolege imaju tendenciju da prilično brzo odgovaraju na pitanja) ili koristiti ćaskanje uživo/e-poštu za podršku kazina ili se raspitati kod same agencije za igre na sreću Anžuans, pre nego što kreirate nalog na Ybets.
Takođe važna napomena - u našoj recenziji se navodi da kazino „prihvata rumunske igrače" - što i čine - i nigde se ne kaže da sajt ima lokalnu licencu. Stoga se Direktiva EU ovde ne primenjuje.
3. Kodeks licenciranja kompjuterskih igara u Anžuanu
Čak i prema Anžuanskoj licenci, operaterima je zabranjeno da nude usluge kockanja u jurisdikcijama gde je to ilegalno, osim ako nemaju i lokalnu licencu. Takođe su dužni da sprovedu provere identiteta i zaštite ranjive pojedince. YBets nije uradio ništa od toga. Prihvatili su me kao kupca bez provere mog identiteta, prebivališta ili statusa isključenja, čime su prekršili sopstvene obaveze licenciranja.
Kao i kod vaše prve izjave, ni ova se ne odnosi, ne samo zbog 4.5.b, već i zbog tačke 5.1.e koja kaže:
5. Vaše garancije
5.1. Pre nego što počnete da koristite Uslugu i na kontinuiranoj osnovi, izjavljujete, garantujete, obavezujete se i slažete se sa sledećim:
e) Pristupate ybets.net iz jurisdikcije u kojoj je to legalno;
Još jednom, kazino se ne promoviše kao rumunski kazino, ne reklamiraju lažno da imaju rumunsku licencu ili da su legalni u Rumuniji, i još jednom je sva odgovornost bačena na igrače i na igrača je da se pobrine da igraju u kazinu koji je legalan u njihovoj zemlji. I dok lično ne volim ovakve stvari i voleo bih da svaki kazino sprovodi ograničenja intelektualne svojine u zemlji, ovo je realnost u kojoj živimo i ono što nije ilegalno, leti.
Iako ja sam nisam advokat, veoma sumnjam da zakon može bilo šta da učini u vezi sa vašim problemom. Ipak, ako se konsultujete sa advokatom o ovome, voleo bih da znam šta je rekao, jer me prilično zanima pravna strana kockanja i zaštita igrača. Na kraju, ali ne i najmanje važno:
Molim vas za pomoć u rešavanju ovog pitanja na pravičan način tako što ćete mi pružiti podršku za povraćaj iznosa izgubljenog kršenjem ovih zakona, €****, što predstavlja razliku između mojih ukupnih depozita (€****) i jedinih isplata koje sam mogao da izvršim (€****).
Prema kazinu, vaš poslednji depozit je izvršen 12. maja, a kazino ste obavestili o svojoj zavisnosti od kockanja 29. maja. Ako je ovo tačno, jedina sredstva koja mogu da tražim od kazina da vam vrati bila bi sve što su konfiskovali sa vašeg stanja prilikom zatvaranja naloga ili ako im je trebalo duže nego što je potrebno da zatvore vaš nalog, a vi ste uspeli da izvršite dodatne depozite pre stvarnog zatvaranja naloga. Molim vas, obavestite me ako se nešto od ovoga dogodilo i ako jeste - koji je bio iznos - i ja ću učiniti sve što mogu da vam pomognem. U suprotnom, mogu samo da osiguram da je vaš nalog pravilno blokiran i da nećete moći ponovo da se otvorite/ponovo registrujete na Ybets u budućnosti, kao i da će sva marketinška komunikacija prestati.
U slučaju dodatnih pitanja ili ako nisam jasno odgovorio na nešto, slobodno pitajte.
Dear Hav_inc, to manage your expectations about the outcome of this dispute properly, I would like to give you some further information regarding your previous post and thoughts:
1. Romanian Gambling Law – O.U.G. 77/2009 (amended by Law no. 124/2015)
This law requires that all gambling operators offering services to Romanian residents be licensed by the Romanian National Gambling Office (ONJN). Article 10 explicitly prohibits remote gambling without ONJN authorization. YBets does not hold such a license and still allowed access, deposits, and gameplay from my Romanian account. This makes their operation in Romania not only unauthorized, but illegal.
Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world, and the Romanian law does not apply here. All because of the clause 4.5.b of the casino's T&C that you have agreed to upon registering your account. The said term states:
- 4.5. Ybets will not accept registrations from individuals who:
b) reside in jurisdictions where gambling is illegal or not permitted. Ybets is unable to verify the legality of the service in each jurisdiction, and it is the user's responsibility to ensure that their use of the service is lawful;
Because of this, the liability is being switched towards the player, and it is a common practice to protect casinos from lawsuits, as even the best country IP block can be easily avoided by VPN and other such services. Since you seem knowledgeable of the Romanian gambling laws, by creating the account you have violated the term 4.5.b knowingly, and therefore can't make this into a court case. I would compare this situation to buying medications online from shady e-shops, instead of purchasing them from local pharmacist or have them prescribed by a doctor. You can do it - but if it makes you sick, you are the responsible person, not the e-shop or the doctor. By playing at Ybets, knowing they are not licensed in Romania, you knowingly engaged in gambling within a casino with no local license, and therefore no local law can help you to enforce any gambling law in case of issues. I say knowingly, because by agreeing to the T&C you consented to uon account creation, that you made sure you know whether it is legal for you to play at this particular casino.
2. EU Directive 2005/29/EC on Unfair Commercial Practices
Articles 6 and 7 of this directive prohibit misleading commercial practices, including failure to disclose key information or presenting a service as legally available when it is not. By omitting Romania from their restricted jurisdictions and by being listed on Casino Guru as "available in Romania" with a high safety index, YBets and your platform misled me into believing I was playing legally and safely. This is a violation of EU consumer protection standards.
At the time of writing this message, term 15.5 is not showing Romania as restricted country, and when my colleague spoke to the live chat, she has been told Romanian players are allowed. Our review reflects this. Also as you yourself stated before, you were able to create an account, deposit, play and even withdraw the money, despite being Romanian. That leads me to believe that the Romanian players are accepted, as our review states.
As for the Casino Guru safety index, the casino has a rating of 7.4, which is still within the level of "GOOD" but not a high safety index. This casino is not even actively being promoted and does not hold a safety badge of Casino Guru. Also our review clearly states the casino has an Anjouan license, which does not cover Romania, as you know. If you had any doubts about legality of the casino in your country of residence, you could ask in our forum, pose a question within the comment section in the casino review (our colleagues tend to reply pretty fast to questions), or use the casino's live chat/support e-mail or inquire with the Anjouan Gaming authority itself, before creating an account at Ybets.
Also an important note - our review states that the casino "Accepts Romanian players" - which they do - and nowhere does it say the site is having local licence. Therefore the EU Directive is not applicable here either.
3. The Anjouan Computer Gaming Licensing Code
Even under the Anjouan license, operators are prohibited from offering gambling services in jurisdictions where it is illegal unless they also hold a local license. They are also required to implement identity checks and protect vulnerable individuals. YBets did none of this. They accepted me as a customer without verifying my identity, residency, or exclusion status, thus violating their own licensing obligations.
As with your first statement, this one also does not apply, not only because of the 4.5.b, but also because of the point 5.1.e that states:
5. Your Warranties
5.1. Prior to your use of the Service and on an ongoing basis you represent, warrant, covenant and agree that:
e) You are accessing ybets.net from a jurisdiction in which it is legal to do so;
Once again, the casino does not promote itself as a Romanian casino, they do not falsely advertise having a Romanian licence or being legal in Romania, and once again the whole responsibility has been thrown at the player's lap and makes it the player's due diligence to ensure they are playing in a casino that is legal in their country. And while I personally dislike this kind of things and wish every casino was enforcing the country IP restrictions, this is the reality we live in and what is not illegal, flies.
While I myself am not a lawyer, I highly doubt there is anything a law can do regarding your issue. Although, if you consult a lawyer about this, I would like to know what they said, as I am quite interested in legal side of gambling and player protection. Last but not least:
I request your assistance in resolving this matter fairly by supporting a refund of the amount lost in violation of these laws, €****, representing the difference between my total deposits (€****) and the only withdrawals I was able to make (€****).
According to the casino your last deposit has been made on 12th May, and you have notified the casino about your gambling addiction on 29th May. If this is correct, the only funds I can ask the casino to refund would be anything that they confiscated from your balance upon closing the account, or if they took longer time than necessary to close your account and you have managed to make further deposits before the actual account closure. Please, let me know if any of this has happened and if so - what was the amount - and I will do my best to help you out. Otherwise, I can only ensure your account is properly blocked and you will not be able to reopen/re-register with Ybets in the future, and that all the marketing communication will cease.
In case of further questions or if I have not answered something clearly, please do not hesitate to ask further.
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