Casinozer - Igrač se raspituje o samoisključenju u kazinu.

Good day

I would like to know CasinoGuru's opinion on this case with reference to fair gaming. 

I suffer from extreme gambling addiction and have therefore been in therapy for more than a year. I usually don't manage to gamble for months. A few times a year, however, I have no will left and gamble. However, the gambling addiction and the losses are kept within limits.

That's why I got myself banned from a lot of casinos and casino groups months ago. This was also the case in the casinos of Altacore N.V. (Dokumente vorhanden). Unfortunately, I lost the fight against my gambling addiction in the short term and gambled away over 3000 EURO in the casinozer casino, which belongs to the Altacore N.V. casino group. I was able to register at this casino, deposit money and gamble away, although I have been banned from all other casinos of the group without exception for a long time because of gambling addiction (documents available). Only at one casino of the group (casinozer) was I able to register and deposit money and gamble. I assume that it is an internal technical error that I was not also blocked at casinozer. 

An employee (livechat) of casinozer told me the following in livechat: 

April 9 (3:18): "if you are blacklisted, you cannot open an account at partner casinos."

April 9 (3: 20): "I did not understand your request, it is normal that you are not allowed to play on partner casinos, if you have been banned and blacklisted from one of the casinos."

The way I read it, a casinozer employee himself admitted that I shouldn't have been allowed to play at casinozer's casino either if I was blocked at other partner casinos. So I'm assuming that it's an internal system error, that I was able to register on casinozer and that the complainant can't do anything about the failure of this player protection function.

Unfortunately, casinozer does not have any player protection functions and no proper complaints procedure, because complaints are always answered with the same reasoning (regardless of the content of the complaint):

"2.6. By creating your account, you guarantee the following:

- You understand and accept the existing risks of losing your money by using the services of the Website. according to our T&C that you have accepted, this is the reason why we will not be able to refund your deposits. We will respond to any legal action against us"

So it is impossible to file a complaint that will be resolved competently and individually. I look forward to CasinoGuru's opinion on this case. Especially with reference to the two statements made by the casinozer employee in live chat.

I accept that you must and should lock yourself out at each individual casino and that cross-casino account bans are not mandatory. However, I believe that the statements made by the casinozer employee make it clear that there is an internal error in the system, and I request appropriate self-criticism and empathy from casinozer so that they realize that there was a failure and that I was able to play in casinozer , although I was blocked in every single partner casino and according to casinozer himself, I would have to be blocked in all other casinos as well. It is important that players can trust statements that are made.

Thank you for your valuable work! 🙂

Dear Mister_Schweiz,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Unfortunately, as you pointed out, if you self-exclude yourself in one casino, that doesn't mean you will be self-excluded in associated casinos. This is true for casinos licensed in Curacao. Could you please advise if you have requested a self-exclusion from Casinozer Casino directly? When did you self-exclude yourself in the associated casinos of this group? What confirmation about the extent of your self-exclusion did you receive from them? Is your account in Casinozer Casino currently accessible to you?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Bets regards,

Tomas

Hello Tomas :)

As I have already communicated, I know the practice of casinos licensed in Curacao regarding bans in casinos / casino groups. So if I had been banned from one casino in the casino group and still been able to play in another casino in the same casino group, I would not have filed a complaint. 

I specifically asked CasinoGuru for advice on my individual case. 

If I am told twice by a Casinozer employee that I could not and should not have played at Casinozer because I am banned from all other (or one) other casino in the same group and I was still able to play, then I wonder if it could be that there was an error in the system that I was able to play at Casinozer but not at any other casino in the same group. 

In other words: Is it fair for all other players to be automatically banned from all Altacore N.V. casinos if they are only banned from one Altacore N.V. casino and only I was not banned due to an internal error in the system. 

Once again, I have actually been banned from all Altacore N.V. casinos for a long time except one (Casinozer). 

I really ask you to read my first message and this one again carefully. Casinozer itself has confirmed that I would not have been allowed to play if I had been banned in another casino of its group. 

Kind regards

Dear Mister_Schweiz,

I am sorry, but we don't deal with hypotheticals. If you are not satisfied with how the casino treated you and you expect a different outcome to be achieved, please don't hesitate to contact us with a specific request.

Please understand that without specific evidence such as confirmations from casinos regarding your self-exclusion, chat transcripts, screenshots, or emails, we cannot proceed with confronting the casino.

Thanks for your understanding.

The term 2.6. you are referencing is something you can find in many casinos and presents a disclaimer that it concerns a gambling website. This might present a different situation when your account is self-excluded due to gambling problems and if the self-exclusion failed a refund on deposits is requested.

The term 'banned' and 'blacklisted' might have different implications than an account that is 'self-excluded', but without further details, we cannot draw any conclusions.

If there is any evidence please let me know about it, otherwise, the complaint will be rejected. I'll await your reply.

I stand by it. Casinozer told me that I should not have been allowed to play because I had been banned from another casino before. I was still able to play, which I consequently consider a mistake on the part of the casino. 

Thanks for your email with the detailed explanation.

In one of the live chat exchange the operator mentioned the casino will send you the email with their position on your request. Would you be able to forward your request and the casino's position on the situation? Please send it to my email at tomas@casino.guru

Thanks for your email once again.

When did you self-exclude yourself in the associated casinos of this group? What confirmation about the extent of your self-exclusion did you receive from them at the time they complied with your requests?

Did the replies from the casino group designate you as blacklisted, or banned?

Good day Tomas

Nice to read from you again!

I am sorry but I have repeatedly detailed all relevant information and my reasoning and also sent you (on April 14th) the documentation showing that I have been blacklisted in all other sister casinos since February 6th 2023 stand. I will email you the documentation again.

I stand by it: Casinozer informed me that if I was banned at the sister casinos, I shouldn't have actually played. However, I was able to play, which consequently was a mistake by the casino if his words are to be believed.

Thank you very much, Mister_Schweiz, for your message.

As mentioned previously, the casino should inform you about the extent of your self-exclusion when you request it. Without it, you can't reliably count on your account to be excluded across multiple brands in Curacao-licensed casinos.

I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Jozef (jozef.k@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Dear Mister_Schweiz,

Thank you very much for sharing your negative experience. We are now going to reach the casino team.

Hello Jozef

I repeat again: Of course, one cannot expect that a ban from one casino automatically implies a ban from all casinos of the same brand (especially if it is a Curacao casino). If that were the case, I would not have lodged a complaint.

The main argument is that casinozer employees wrote to me that I shouldn't have been allowed to play at casinozer because I've been blacklisted at all other sister casinos for a long time. I do not assume that this statement by casinozer was a lie. As a result, I assume a system error and ask the casino for appropriate self-criticism.

Hello Mister_Schweiz, 

Thank you for reaching out to us,

As already stated in our previous email, we remind you that when you have registered your account, you have accepted our terms and conditions, which clearly state the following:

"2.6. By creating your account, you guarantee the following:

- You understand and accept the existing risks of losing your money by using the services of the Website;

- Gambling is not prohibited in your jurisdiction: Prior to attempting to open an account on our site, it is the player's entire responsibility to make sure that he/she is not in breach of any legislation or gambling regulation in force in his jurisdiction;

- You are not banned from gambling;

- Your account hasn't been deleted for the following reasons: conspiracy, fraud, criminal activity, violation of the Terms and Conditions or the Responsible gaming clause.

As stated above, and according to our T&C that you have accepted, this is the reason we will not be able to refund your deposits.

Please note that since the time your addiction problems were reported to us, your account was closed within 24 hours of this request in accordance with our T&C. 

In your previous contacts, you only mention the desire to receive certain offers, or questions regarding your verification or your account in general. 

Kind regards,

Casinozer Team

Good day

Thank you for your quick response

"2.6. By creating your account, you guarantee the following:

- You understand and accept the existing risks of losing your money by using the services of the Website"

Is there any complaint at all that you accept in relation to this paragraph or is there a complaint that cannot be dismissed by this article?

You are talking about jurisdiction here. I do not know why. It was not part of my complaint.

As said. A casinozer employee confirmed to me that I shouldn't have been allowed to play if I'm already blacklisted at other sister casinos.

April 9 (3:18): "if you are blacklisted, you cannot open an account at partner casinos."

April 9 (3: 20): "I did not understand your request, it is normal that you are not allowed to play on partner casinos, if you have been banned and blacklisted from one of the casinos."

In fact, I was blacklisted at all other sister casinos. How do you rate the statements of your employee?

Dear Mister_Schweiz,

For the start, I would like to point out Tomas's statement that still applies.

As mentioned previously, the casino should inform you about the extent of your self-exclusion when you request it. Without it, you can't reliably count on your account to be excluded across multiple brands in Curacao-licensed casinos.

It is not standard that self-exclusion applies between the related brands nowadays. It is mostly done by MGA-licensed brands, but it is still not the majority. Furthermore, it depends on the brand, relations, market, regulator, platform, and many other aspects. 

In your case, we cannot penalize the casino for something they did not promise. Additionally, they were not aware of your problem, so they could not prevent you from registering. Your communication with support can be misinterpreted, but it does not directly support your claims. 

I am very sorry but after concluding all the information I can only reject your case since I believe you are not entitled to receive the refund. You have every right not to agree with my decision. Another option is to file an official complaint at the licensing authority of the casino. I will gladly help you with it, you may reach me at the email address mentioned below. Please, be aware that this complaint will affect their reputation on our website. Let me know if you have any questions or require further assistance.

Best regards, Jozef

jozef.k@casino.guru

Hello Jozef

I'm glad that my complaint will affect the casino's reputation.

How do you interpret the following messages? What do you conclude from this?

"if you are blacklisted, you cannot open an account at partner casinos."

"I did not understand your request, it is normal that you are not allowed to play on partner casinos, if you have been banned and blacklisted from one of the casinos."

The casino seems to admit here that the common practice is to get banned from all casinos: "it's normal".

So if it was a system failure and I got banned from Casinozer because of a mistake, then in fairness I ask that you treat me like the casino treated other players in the same situation: ban from all brands.

I ask the casino for self-criticism. Also in relation to the two statements by Casinozer cited above.

I've reopened this complaint as per the player’s request. The player has informed us that the casino issued a full refund after he filed a legally sound complaint (with the assistance of lawyers in Curacao). Therefore, I am closing the case as 'resolved'.